Fascinating table discussion on Why are some people so passionately opposed to marriage for same-sex couples? I learned something important... “It’s to protect the children!”
Come to Salon Wednesday and hear Till Schilling on the EFT technique for emotional self-healing.
And...I am working to get around the spam blocker problem for our html Weekly. That’s why I am sending out just links to the blog. But the blog is cumbersome to post photos. So I am experimenting with something called iContact, an emailer, where you will get the full weekly, it won’t be spam blocked, it will have all the visuals we like, and you can unsubscribe automatically. It costs money, of course. Maybe someone will give me a grant. No, no, save that for the roof! (We need a new slate roof.)
It’s my impression that it is way better to send the whole Weekly in an email rather than ask people to click on a blog link. Right?
P.S. Don’t miss our Egypt Trip Slide Show Party next Fri, 22nd at 5. See below in Activities section.
The Lloyd House Wednesday Night Salon WEEKLY
1/14/10
A Newsletter published every Thursday from the Lloyd House in Cincinnati
Email subscriptions: 623
Our Salon blog is an interactive site: http://lloydhouse.blogspot.com
If you would like to respond, amend, or correct anything in this Newsletter, please consider using that. I will receive a copy of anything posted there.
FIVE SECTIONS, including:
- Table Notes of the discussion at this Wednesday night’s Salon, as recorded by Ellen
- Events and Opportunities
- Articles and Letters
- Book, Film, Theater, TV, Music, Website Reviews
- Tri-State Treasures, compiled by Jim Kesner
Submissions: you must have the email copy to me by Wednesday night midnight. Copy the format you see in this Weekly please. (Times New Roman font, text 14 pt, headlines 20 pt. Maroon for Opportunities and Events, Navy for articles.)
The Wednesday Night Salon has been meeting each week of the year (no break for holidays, weather) since July 2001 in pursuit of good talk. Bring a dish at 5:45 pm and join us. We are usually about 10 people of varied erudition and age. We like to talk politics, environmentalism, social issues, literature, the arts, ad any blamed thing we want. Sometimes we have a special presenter. We emphasize good fellowship and civility always. Way fun! Everyone welcome. 3901 Clifton Avenue 45220.
SECTION ONE: TABLE NOTES
Present:
Julia Yarden, Sophia Yarden, Don Wang, Allen Jozwiak, Carolyn Clark, Mira Rodwan, Mr. G., Byron Moody, Dwight Wilson, Dani Long, Lauren Hanisian, Viddle, Ellen Bierhorst,
Carolyn: on Sunday, Ben Franklin's birthday. Jan 17. Invented the postage stamp. Many fabulous inventions. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benjamin_Franklin
Ellen Next week, Fri 22 Jan, party at my house, here, 5:00 pot luck, followed by projection of photos of my Egypt trip.
,.. Till Schiller next week.
Mira at St John's UU church, this fri Jan 15, pot luck at 7, program on Food. "Food Inc" will be shown. Donations will be asked.
ON Jan 29, 30, Fri and Sat, "Zvi Dance" at the Aronoff.
Ellen MLK day Monday. March at 9:30 Fountain Square; Concert, program Music Hall at 11.
TOPICS
Byron: Let's ask the new person.
Dani: still in my shell
Mr. G.: What idea is most on your mind lately?
Dani: gay marriage case in California
Mira: Miep Gies has died. Ann Frank friend. Steve Sunderland, salonista, has written about her, his visit to her. (see articles section in blue below.)
Carolyn: "The hate crimes of the white nationalist movement", the skin heads... the OKLA City bombing people... in bed with the Tea Bagers. 15 minutes.
Viddle evils of the health insurance industry.
Carolyn: the whistleblower Birkensfeldt on the swiss bank UBS, US tax evaders. Now he is going to jail.
gay marriage IN CALIFORNIA
Dani: CA made it legal to marry gays. Lots of people went to CA to get married. Then Prop 8 repealed the marriage act. The case claims that Prop 8 violates the constitution of the US. So far at the state level there has been 2 days of hearings. ... The US supreme court ruled that they cannot post the trial on youTube for now. They will make a final ruling today.
(The Supreme Court ruled, No YouTube.)
Why do people oppose gay marriage?
Mr. G. institutional opposition rather than personal. A person could be against gay marriage if they believe that the institution as traditional, is fundamental to the stability of socieity, as they wish it to be, ...
Lauren in the bible there are verses in old and new testaments against homosexuality. For some people this is important.
Ellenl: how do they imagine that gay marriage undermines stability?
WHY ARE SOME PEOPLE THREATENED BY GAY MARRIAGE?
Viddle some people think making marriage legal makes it moral to be gay.
Lauren look at scripture, it was declared imoral by God. People have some sort of visceral antipathy to homosexuality.
Viddle: it's political. The bible is a political book. it abrogated previous religions who permitted lesbianism among temple priestesses ...
Dani: combination of religion--we are a very christian country-- and even if you are not religious you probably tend to feel it is unnatural. I don't understand the argument of the "breaking of the fabric" of society. My mother is opposed to gay marriage; "they have civil union so isn't it enough?"
Dwight: combination of religious beliefs and the political system. People are afraid if you depart from a norm then power is threatened.
Byron: ... people are afraid of change. Imagine the moral fabric of our country will be erroded if we go down that path. I have a problem with powerful people thinking they can do whatever they want--sexuality, etc. etc.-- sex tourism.
Mr. G.: another idea. the old argument, "you gotta protect the children". America is so afraid of sex. "You don't want y our children to be gay, and you don't want any institutional development that makes it easire to be a gay person."
Ellen That's a new idea: that opposing gay marriage tends to protect "our children" against chosing gay lifestyles.
Carolyn: someone ought to write a book about the countries like Denmark and Sweden where gay marriage has been legal for a long time. ... there are other countries where they stone adulterers to death.
Don: in countries where they have gay marriage they have a negative birth rate.
Mr. G: I don't know if that is true, but imagine that it is. Then you want to chose institutions which produce children over those that don't. there is a theory that societies go downhill because of gayness.
Mira: more gay men and lesbian women are becoming parents through birth and adoption.
Alan I think it is fear based on ignorance. A few weeks ago read Blankets by Craig Thompson, a graphic novel. What it was like to grow up in rural Minnesota, bible belt. Wants to go to art school. HIs pastor said a bad idea because in art school they have nude drawing, and that leads to pornography which leads to homosexuality. that's a perfect example of fear based on ignorance.
Another thing about the biblical injunction. I believe it is Leviticus. There are many things people don't use any more, like the prohibition of wearing clothing that has both cotton and wool in it for instance.
Mira: for straight men who are insecure ... they fear that gay marriage may undermine their positions.
Don: your question is beyond my experience. Having been not that successful at marriage, I can't begin to understand why people are dying to be involved with it.
Mr G: I learned, by watching AMC series "Madmen", around the bay of pigs era. Madison Avenue firm. The women in the series ... glass ceiling ... they talk about how to cope with the models of success. People don't want to give up what they are aiming for to be successful. There is a fairy tale; it is very appealing.
Viddle: My dear aunt Zelda, now in her 90's. My niece came into the room, "I just found out my girls re gay!" My aunt said "How wonderful, I am glad they are happy."
Carolyn you can write to your Washington reps, because Stupak ammendment makes it illegal for women to use their own money for r eproductive health coverage! This is not only for gay people. Stupak is a democrat! ... Brett Hume on Fox News recommended Tiger Woods abandon his Buddhism.
Viddle: at this table most of us would support gay marriage. But how many would support pederasty, pedophilia.
Mira: I saw a French movie about a mother-son pederasty/incest. It was very loving. changed my views. At the time we were studying situational ethics. I t hought "every case must be judged anew". Movie might have been "Murmmers of the heart" might be the title.
End of table notes.
Hugs to all,
ellen
Ellen Bierhorst, Ph.D. Holistic Psychologist; Alexander Technique Teacher http://www.lloydhouse.com ~~~513 221 1289~~~ The Lloyd House 3901 Clifton Avenue Cincinnati, OH 45220
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